Auto Express review of new model Tucson - hybrid power reduced to 212hp

All Hyundai Tucson related discussions
dylan2910
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Post by dylan2910 »

It has proved big enough, completely reliable apart from a creak from the pano roof

This issue has been mentioned before, lubricating the seals around the roof appears to solve the issue (it did on mine)

dylan2910
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:29 pm

Post by dylan2910 »

For info, if any one tows , Hyundai have reduced the towing limit to 1360kgs on the hybrid and 1210kgs on the PHEV
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PhilHornby
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Post by PhilHornby »

Philr wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:57 am Is it correct to use ps as a measurement though? ICE is measured in hp, bhp or ps and electric motor(s) in kW. Surely it needs some sort of total power measurement to be accurate.
They're all units of Power (the rate of doing work), so you could use any of them. The automotive industry likes to use all of them :roll:
(The EU mandated that Watts was the official unit of power, back in 2009).
jarvis wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:00 am But they used to quote 150ps for the ICE and 180ps for all the "electrified" power trains, before adding on anything for the electric motor. So you can't subtract the motor's output from the total and get the ICE version's power.
Various bits of Hyundai literature have quoted a variety of numbers. It's just that their arithmetic makes no sense. (I too, have seen the numbers you quote).
https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hybrid-technology-enhanced-driving-experience-for-tucson-and-santa-fecustomers.html wrote:For enhanced performance and reduced emissions, both the TUCSON Hybrid and SANTA FE Hybrid are
assembled with a powerful 230 PS hybrid powertrain, which is a combination of Hyundai’s 1.6‑litre T-GDi
‘Smartstream’ engine and a 44.2 kW electric motor.
So it implies that: 230PS (i.e. 226HP/168KW) is the sum of 170PS/168HP/125KW from the ICE and 58PS/59HP/44KW from the electric motor. (There is some rounding there, so my arithmetic doesn't quite add up either!)

In this document, they think the ICE might be producing 180PS/177HP! Granted it is talking about the Santa Fe, but I think that is because it was the first implementation.

That same document lists the HSG as being 13KW(17HP). That might only be the power draw when it is called upon to start the ICE, but it may also be the amount of Power it can produce to charge the battery/supply the motor. If the latter is true, then 17HP would need to be subtracted from the ICE Power (that is being sent to the wheels) - there's no free lunch ;)

So all very unsatisfactory! I still suspect that nothing has changed, other than the words emanating from Hyundai's Sales Dept.

(Some related, light reading: Dynamometer Test of Ioniq HEV)
N Line S Hybrid (HEV).
23 plate - built Nov '22
terryp
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Post by terryp »

I see no mention of the "Battery Reset" issue that I continue to experience (twice in the last 2 weeks).
Am I alone in this problem or has no one else experienced it?
Don't misunderstand me, it's not a major issue to reset the A/C and lose the data under "fuel since refuelling" but I'm surprised that it didn't get a mention when describing the Tucson's virtues and criticisms.
If any one has found a resolution to this, I would be very interested to hear. Otherwise, I will raise this with the dealer, for the third time, at the next service.
Despite the above, I continue to enjoy driving it and I will not rush out to buy the facelift model.
Tucson Ultimate Auto 230PS in Dark Teal. Love it!!
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Indalo1
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Post by Indalo1 »

terryp wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:46 pm Despite the above, I continue to enjoy driving it and I will not rush out to buy the facelift model.
That’s a lovely disposition to have and reflects my own attitude to the trials and tribulations of life with a motor car, sadly, only gained in my later years. Recollections of ‘If’ by Kipling occur.
Hybrid in Ultimate trim - ordered 12/05/23 - Collected 07/06/23
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PhilHornby
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Post by PhilHornby »

Philr wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 7:57 am There's also the issue of the ICE being used far more to charge the traction battery so not all the hp/bhp/ps is available to drive the car. This is true of an ICE car as well, how many seat heaters are in use, aircon etc will affect it, but in a full hybrid it must be a much greater %age of the available power just used to charge the battery.
I think I missed the point you were getting at here...

The G4FT ICE fitted to the Tucson Hybrid may never actually have been measured in isolation! (hence the 'estimate' (177HP) given in one of those Hyundai documents). Just pulling wires off things like the Traction Motor and the HSG would probably generate all kinds of system errors, since they're such an integral part of the powertrain.
N Line S Hybrid (HEV).
23 plate - built Nov '22
jarvis
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Post by jarvis »

PhilHornby wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 3:25 pm
In this document, they think the ICE might be producing 180PS/177HP! Grant

That same document lists the HSG as being 13KW(17HP). That might only be the power draw when it is called upon to start the ICE, but it may also be the amount of Power it can produce to charge the battery/supply the motor. If the latter is true, then 17HP would need to be subtracted from the ICE Power (that is being sent to the wheels) - there's no free lunch ;)
You've mentioned charging before but we know the battery isn't constantly charged, only when needed. Why would the car, when going for maximum power output, use the electric motor to assist the engine while simultaneously using the engine to charge the battery? I always thought that power outputs were a maximum, not a continuous measurement, especially when it comes to electric motors and batteries.

Even some pure ICE cars can charge their battery on and off and at different rates using variable output alternators and either deep(er)-cycle batteries or a capacitor. Mazda called this i-eloop, VW called it blue motion. So you wouldn't necessarily have to deduct the cost of charging the battery during hard acceleration if you're looking to measure maximum power output?
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PhilHornby
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Post by PhilHornby »

jarvis wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2024 6:51 am You've mentioned charging before but we know the battery isn't constantly charged, only when needed. Why would the car, when going for maximum power output, use the electric motor to assist the engine while simultaneously using the engine to charge the battery?
On the road, if you floor the throttle with the Traction Battery at ½ charge, the motor could deplete it in less than a minute. Of course, you may well have hit the 120mph speed limiter, so this scenario is not very likely. But what would the car do then? (I don't know - you can come up with a variety of algorithms to deal with the situation, but one of them, is that it starts charging early on, at the maximum rate).

What I'm coming round to thinking, is that Horsepower claims for hybrid powertrains are so dynamic, that they're not a very good way of comparing vehicle performance anyway.
N Line S Hybrid (HEV).
23 plate - built Nov '22
Philr
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Post by Philr »

What I'm coming round to thinking, is that Horsepower claims for hybrid powertrains are so dynamic, that they're not a very good way of comparing vehicle performance anyway.
Which was the point I was trying to make.

I used to do a bit of racing, ice only no electric assistance or full hybrid stuff, and when modifying any of the power maps, the ecu I used had 3 which were switch selectable from inside the cabin, hp and torque were measured at the hubs by taking the drive wheels, rears in my case, off and attaching the "rolling road" directly to them.
This got rid of the tyre issue, inflation level, tread level - I raced in a road legal class so had to have treaded tyres - tyre age etc etc. and also allowed for any drivetrain losses, different gear ratios and so on. As part of this we experimented with switching the electrics on, didn't have too many just lights and wipers really, which even that would drop the hp by 1 or 2. This was important as I did some endurance stuff that ran into the night so with a bit of magic mapping I could get that loss back. The downside was that it would drink more fuel which is an issue not because of the cost, petrol at race tracks is silly expensive, but trying to work the optimum amount, and therefore weight , of fuel to carry between pit stops. Carry too much and the weight penalty comes into play, carry too little and more pit stops may be needed. Bearing in mind we didn't have all the data analysis stuff that pro teams have a lot of it was gut feel based on past experience of an individual circuit, weather conditions and the car itself.
Hybrid power is very different to plain old ice power in terms of power delivery and availability. I wonder how the pro racing teams - F1, BTCC etc measure it?
Phil

I don't have a carbon footprint because I drive everywhere.

2022 Premium HEV
dylan2910
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Post by dylan2910 »

terryp wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:46 pm I see no mention of the "Battery Reset" issue that I continue to experience (twice in the last 2 weeks).
Am I alone in this problem or has no one else experienced it?
Don't misunderstand me, it's not a major issue to reset the A/C and lose the data under "fuel since refuelling" but I'm surprised that it didn't get a mention when describing the Tucson's virtues and criticisms.
If any one has found a resolution to this, I would be very interested to hear. Otherwise, I will raise this with the dealer, for the third time, at the next service.
.
This has been mentioned many times in the past, My Tucson is 30 months old and has suffered from this since new, it has been reported to the dealer several times and they have been unable to solve the issue
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